both bottled fuel and vending_machine fuel are significantly more expensive, maybe 30% more, than fuel bought at a full-service branded fuel station. This is another compelling reason to differentiate them somehow
this is dependent on the region I guess, around here vending machines are cheaper than having your vehicle filled at a service station, and the same as when you do it yourself, there is no compelling reason why saving on salaries should be more expensive.
we have shop=water and shop=alcohol (though in many areas shop selling primarily or only water are fairly simple)
we have also shop=beverages
Prices in vending machines can be from 42-44 per liter , but most often 50 , and sometimes 55-56 per liter. At the same time, the price at the brand fuel station is 40.
If I have the opportunity to get to the station, I will not refuel in a barrel or a vending machine
I donât mind shop=fuel, but I donât agree either.
I will obey the decision of the community.
But I insist on separating the station from the store and the vending machine. The station should only be a full-fledged gas station.
But there are also independent fuel stations (which have a roof over the territory and underground fuel storage) - I think such objects need marking as a station (amenity=fuel) and the word âindependentâ in the tags: name, brand or/and operator
It depends on local culture. In Europe it is pretty safe to assume that a supermarket or convenience shop will sell alcohol.
In my experience when in Canada supermarkets donât sell alcohol.
Yes. In any store, some product may run out or not be sold. But this is not a reason to do the opposite - instead of one mixed goods store (a wide range), do a lot of pois for each group of products.
An exception is if it is a specialized store (alcohol, meat, fuel).
this is all very expensive, around here price is usually lower than 2 per liter :), like 1.90
50 Baht are about 1.30 Euro âŠ
Alright, so hereâs my proposal:
amenity=fuel.amenity=vending_machine + vending=fuel.shop=fuel.vending=fuel at general stores selling fuel in bottles.This approach provides a clear distinction between the three first categories.
iD already provides presets for these, and âGas Pumpâ will soon be renamed to âGas Vending Machine,â as per @Dimitar155âs recent PR.
The next steps will involve:
man_made=fuel_pump.Do you have any objections or suggestions to add?
Great. Starting today, I will start adding new barrels on my way as shop/fuel. But the old ones need to be searched through an automatic script (many of them are marked as Drum)
The only problem remains in OsmAnd Maps - when searching for a gas station, it will only show ameny/fuel. To find vending machines and mazagins, you need to search in the search categories.
And the problem remains - after adding vending machines with fuel, it will show all vending machines (not just fuel).
Has someone tracked this issue in osmandmaps ?
do you plan to make a proposal in the wiki according to the proposal process? I believe it could be helpful to evaluate whether we want to make these distinctions on the tagging top level, and what the definitions / distinctive elements should be.
To me there isnât a âclear distinctionâ of these items, in particular, âvending machineâ as opposed to âfull-fledged stationâ is not clear to me. What is required for a âfull-fledgedâ station? A roof? Staff on the premises? Compressed air? Oil and water? Different types of petrol? Is a CNG-only station amenity=fuel, is it âfull-fledgedâ?
Right now, my main goal is to get everyone in the small Thailand community on the same page. This way, we can make local progress on this issue and avoid any more editing clashes.
Trying to establish a global standard for categorizing fuel dispensing points is a tough and lengthy process because each country has its own quirks. Fortunately, in Thailand, things are pretty clear-cut, and weâll be adding more details to our local wiki.
right, establishing consensus locally is easier at first, but if you ignore the global situation when making tagging decisions, it will likely lead to problems later on. Local tagging agreements shouldnât be in conflict with global definitions, so ultimately what you are planning to do (define which places should not get amenity=fuel although you can fuel your vehicle there) will at some point have to be discussed with a wider audience anyway.
How did I overlook the global context? I created this general topic specifically to gather input from our global community, and itâs evident that there isnât a unanimous consensus among participants worldwide, likely because of the diverse circumstances in different regions.
I donât perceive any conflicts with the global definitions; in fact, my initial worry was that the definitions were simply unclear. As @Dimitar155 pointed out, and as is often the case with OpenStreetMap, multiple tagging scenarios can be both possible and valid. However, Iâd prefer to work with my local community to settle on a single scenario to prevent any potential editing conflicts.
| julcnx
September 15 |
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How did I overlook the global context?
this was directly referring to "Right now, my main goal is to get everyone in the small Thailand community on the same page. This way, we can make local progress on this issue and avoid any more editing clashes.
Trying to establish a global standard for categorizing fuel dispensing points is a tough and lengthy process because each country has its own quirks. Fortunately, in Thailand, things are pretty clear-cut, and weâll be adding more details to our local wiki."
which to me read as if you were planning to establish your own local standards.
I created this general topic specifically to gather input from our global community, and itâs evident that there isnât a unanimous consensus among participants worldwide, likely because of the diverse circumstances in different regions.
+1
I donât perceive any conflicts with the global definitions; in fact, my initial worry was that the definitions were simply unclear.
unclear definitions are indeed problematic, because they may easily lead to the same tags used to express/represent different things.
I might offer a solution for distinguishing a âretail fuel stationâ from other fuel categories such as vending machines and shops:
A âretail fuel stationâ is typically characterized by its provision of a drive-through service. When you visit a retail fuel station, you enter a private property with your vehicle, access a fuel pump for refueling, and then exit the premises.
Conversely, fuel vending machines and fuel shops, at least in the context of Thailand, are typically situated along the roadside or in front of a convenience store. These establishments do not have designated areas for vehicles to stop, meaning that most of the time, customers access them directly from a public road side. Consequently, these fuel options have limited capacity, availability, and primarily cater to customers on motorcycles.
Would this definition apply in your country as well?
A âretail fuel stationâ is typically characterized by its provision of a drive-through service. When you visit a retail fuel station, you enter a private property with your vehicle, access a fuel pump for refueling, and then exit the premises.
Conversely, fuel vending machines and fuel shops, at least in the context of Thailand, are typically situated along the roadside or in front of a convenience store. These establishments do not have designated areas for vehicles to stop, meaning that most of the time, customers access them directly from a public road side. Consequently, these fuel options have limited capacity, availability, and primarily cater to customers on motorcycles.
Would this definition apply in your country as well?
here there are basically 2 types, those with a drivethrough (and usually a roof and some kind of enclosed building), like your first example, and those roadside, which usually donât have a roof, but some kind of booth/office (very small, 2 people can maybe stand inside) is usually present. There are also road markings dedicated to the fuel station so people donât park there, but if there are several customers they have to queue on the carriageway, so space is quite limited.
Unless there is heavy rain, it doesnât really make a difference from the customer point of view which kind of station it is as they might provide the same service or not: in urban areas both kind donât typically provide a convenience store (as is common in Germany, due to some legislation specifics there), there will be compressed air but it will be broken in one way or the other in half of the places, and they might sell light bulbs, windscreen wipers and oil, or not. Also the larger stations tend to operate automatically in the night, unless they are on motorways or some important roads. They all have fuel tanks buried below the surface and usually can provide as much fuel as you like.
I was thinking too. I have already seen several gas stations where there is nothing but a roof and an old transfer column. There is no shop, no toilet, no compressed air. But I saw a rusty PPT or Shell logo⊠but, I think, from Shell there was only the price of fuel.
Alright, itâs highly probable that this is the primary deciding factor.